The Mike Church Show World HQ
The Mike Church Show World HQ
God would not be a fan of Salvador Dali
Chris Ferrara’s book has become the subject of many conversations on the Mike Church Show of late

Mandeville, LA – Exclusive Transcript “This is a hard concept for people to grasp.  They will grasp, though, they will pay top dollar to go watch movies made by Hollywood so they can be scared of this entity, and they are, and they believe it to exist.  They have no problems using Ouija boards.  They foolishly believe they are conjuring up the dead when they’re monkeying around with their Ouija boards.  They’re not.  If that thing is moving, it’s being moved by a demon. The same demons who are orchestrating the rising evil of Mordor on The Potomac.”  Check out today’s transcript for the rest….

Begin Mike Church Show Transcript

Mike:  If it is this struggle and if it is life that really is the aim, or trying to exterminate life or prevent it that is the aim of the progressive liberal and I believe moderate to majorities of conservative populations — the reason I say that is because most conservatives today, or people that call themselves conservatives — God bless them, most of them are so well intentioned.  You cannot be pro-life and then give your sanction to the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians in lands far away that you can’t even point to on a map.  The two are the same activity.  You may not believe or think that they are but they are.  If the extermination or the end of life is what the goal is and what it is that’s being carried out here, who is it or what is it that is the enemy of life, Mr. Ferrara?

Christopher Ferrara:  We know his name.  His name is the devil.

Mike:  This is a hard concept for people —

Ferrara:  Remember him?

If we don’t believe that, then we don’t believe in the devil.  If we don’t believe in the devil, do we really believe in God?  The answer obviously is, practically speaking, no.  We pay lip service to it but we don’t conduct ourselves politically, we don’t conform our laws and institutions to the reality of God’s existence and the reality of the existence of evil as embodied in the devil.  Religion is nothing more than a private club for us now.  We’ve seen the results.  When are people going to wake up to the results of severing politics from religion?

Mike:  I do.  This is a hard concept for people to grasp.  They will grasp, though, they will pay top dollar to go watch movies made by Hollywood so they can be scared of this entity, and they are, and they believe it to exist.  They have no problems using Ouija boards.  They foolishly believe they are conjuring up the dead when they’re monkeying around with their Ouija boards.  They’re not.  If that thing is moving, it’s being moved by a demon.  That’s what’s moving it.  We have a concept that there is this diablos, that there is a devil.  Yet when we try to attach to his handiwork things that ought to be obviously demonic, people recoil.  Question: Is that another part of our devotion to the god and goddess of liberty?

Ferrara:  The famous saying is that the devil’s greatest stratagem is to convince you that he doesn’t exist.  We live in a regime where we pretend that evil, as a force in the world, as an entity embodied in this diabolical creature doesn’t exist, or that we don’t have to pay any attention to it in the next election.  We simply go along with the will of the majority.  Where the majority sanctions the mass murder of unborn children, the devil is clearly at work.  If we believe in the devil, we have to believe that.  If we don’t believe that, then we don’t believe in the devil.  If we don’t believe in the devil, do we really believe in God?  The answer obviously is, practically speaking, no.  We pay lip service to it but we don’t conduct ourselves politically, we don’t conform our laws and institutions to the reality of God’s existence and the reality of the existence of evil as embodied in the devil.  Religion is nothing more than a private club for us now.  We’ve seen the results.  When are people going to wake up to the results of severing politics from religion?

Let me tell you what Benedict XVI said two months after the senseless war, the first World War began.  I don’t care whether you’re Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, or an atheist.  This is the voice of a prophet telling people what had gone wrong in the world.  What he said was this, “Ever since the precepts and practices of Christian wisdom ceased to be observed in the ruling of nations, it followed that, as they [meaning Christian principles] contained the peace and stability of institutions, the very foundations of states necessarily began to be shaken. Such, moreover, has been the change in the ideas and morals of men, that unless God comes soon to our help, the end of civilization would seem to be at hand.”

Listen to and read Mike’s many other interviews with Chris Ferrara and “Liberty The God That Failed”

Even a libertarian like Hans-Hermann Hoppe — he’s an atheist, Mike — can see this.  In his book Democracy: The God That Failed, he says that World War I, the first huge war following the French revolutionary wars, of post-Christian Western man marks the end of civilization.  He said that with the destruction of government in private hands, meaning the so-called evil monarchies of Christendom, and the emergence of mass democracy, we could expect a rapid civilizational decline.  This is a libertarian speaking, who doesn’t even believe in God.  He can see the results of detaching government from religion.  In his own way, he recognizes this.  Unfortunately, he doesn’t prescribe the right cure.  He talks about anarcho-capitalism as the solution, but at least his diagnosis is correct.  This is what people have to wake up to.  This is what you’re trying to awaken them to, and God bless you for it.

Mike Church presents John Taylor-American Statesman. 7 years in the making, the one book about the purpose of American government, from someone who was there, you must read
Mike Church presents John Taylor-American Statesman. 7 years in the making, the one book about the purpose of American government, from someone who was there, you must read

Mike:  I want to throw a couple of curveballs at you.  I’m going to get these.  I get them often.  I’m not afraid to talk about this any longer.  I am afraid of not talking about it.  People say, [mocking] “What’s the big haste with you and the mythological Blessed Virgin Mary or whatever it is you call her?  What is your infatuation with God being at the center of our politics and all this?  You used to be all right and now you’re just trying to institute a new theocracy.  I don’t want to live in a theocracy.”  Am I proposing, if we added the God clause to the preamble of the Constitution, am I proposed a theocracy, Christopher Ferrara?

Ferrara:  First of all, we live in a theocracy right now.

Mike:  I hoped you were going to say that.  Thank you.  Explain, why do we live in a theocracy?

Ferrara:  It’s because whatever a state places at the apex of its arrangements becomes its god.  The highest authority of the state is its god.  St. Paul teaches this.  Men worship a god of one sort or another.  Either the god is Liberty, who literally was worshipped as a god in ancient Rome, or the god is the God who has revealed himself to us.  The idea that America is a religiously-neutral state is preposterous.  We obviously have an anti-theological state that has taken a religious position and is snuffing out religious liberty all over this country at this very moment.  Let’s get rid of the naïve notion that we have a religiously-neutral state and recognize that there is a civil religion which is anti-Christian in nature.

Does that mean we want a theocracy in America?  Obviously not.  I’m not talking about a theocratic regime in which we have ayatollahs ruling the country and burning heretics on the hour every hour.  That’s not what we’re talking about.  I’m talking about nothing more than a recovery of people’s recognition that they owe obedience to the divine law before the law of man.  “We must obey God rather than men,” said St. Paul.  That’s what Martin Luther King said in his jail cell when he wrote his letter from the jail cell in Birmingham.  He cited this Protestant minister, St. Augustine, and St. Thomas Aquinas with the proposition that the higher law governs the lower law.  That’s what we’re talking about.  We’re not talking about a theocracy.  We’re talking about a country in which abortion would be unthinkable, for example.  What is wrong with that?

Mike:  Even if we were talking about a theocracy, if we were to describe one or two that existed, you might say — these would be as close to theocracy as I think you would encounter, from what I’ve read anyways, and that would be the rein of King Louis, St. King Louis IX, or the rein of St. King Edward I.

Ferrara:  King Louis IX is part of a frieze of lawgivers in Western history that you can find in the chamber of the United States Supreme Court where people argue their cases.  Let’s talk a little bit about King Louis IX.  He is a perfect example of what a ruler should be.  He recognizes what the church calls the principle of subsidiarity.  He would go to a village and he would wait outside the gates of the village to be received by the mayor of that village.  He would promise to abide by local law during his visit as the King of France.  This is what we’re talking about, someone who recognizes that he as the ruler is bound by a higher law and holds himself accountable to God and, frankly, fears for his own particular judgment when he dies.  The loss of the fear of God is behind the collapse of the moral order in the Western world.

Let’s get rid of the naïve notion that we have a religiously-neutral state and recognize that there is a civil religion which is anti-Christian in nature.

Mike:  So King Louis IX, this is the horror of theocracy or the horror of subsidiarity.  If somebody goes and looks up subsidiarity, they find out that it is a part of the Thomistic teaching — St. Thomas Aquinas, of course, a Roman Catholic saint.  Then all of a sudden we’re confronted with, [mocking] “That’s Catholic.  You’ve got your papal fantasies and all this.”  The hatred towards the Church and towards Rome goes back for millennia.  I think Venerable Fulton Sheen said it best.  Most Americans don’t really hate the Catholic Church.  What they hate is 400 years’ worth of propaganda about the Roman Catholic Church.

Last time you were on, I got hate mail from a guy who demanded that you and I explain how our buddy Pope Pius XI, who was known as Hitler’s Pope, how we justify that.  I started looking this up.  Of course, this is complete fabrication here.  Pope Pius XI could not have been more anti-Hitler.  For Heaven’s sake, the man wrote an entire encyclical in 1936 or 1937 about the horrors of what was coming to Eastern Europe, didn’t he?

Ferrara:  Not only that, nobody did more than the Catholic Church to save Jews from the clutches of Hitler.  That’s the great irony of this.  The one institution on Earth that singlehandedly saved more Jews and received tributes from contemporaneous Jews at the time, i.e., the Catholic Church, is now condemned as an aider and abettor of the Nazi Holocaust.  It’s just an outrageous historical falsehood.

Going back to St. Thomas Aquinas, I don’t care whether he’s Catholic or not.  For purposes of discussing his philosophy of politics, this is natural law.  It applies to all men and all nations.  They call St. Thomas the philosopher of common sense, in other words, the common sense available to all men no matter what their religion.  When you talk about subsidiarity, all you’re really saying is that government ought to operate at the lowest possible level, i.e., subsidiary levels.  What is appropriate to a town should be done by a town, by a county, and so forth.  The central government has very limited authority.  Essentially it’s the hand on the tiller but the people in the boat do their own thing at their own level.  That’s the way government should be ordered.  If you have a hierarchically structured government like we do, with national government at the top and local governments at successively lower levels.  That’s all St. Thomas is talking about.  You don’t have to be a Catholic to believe in that.  In fact, when you talk about just war criteria, these were found in Protestant commentaries of the 18th century, which were basing themselves on the prior teaching of Catholic thinkers.  It didn’t matter that they happened to be catholic.  They were expounded principles of natural reason and common sense, all of which has been forgotten in the modern state system.

End Mike Church Show Transcript

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  • Mike,
    Since wonderful discussions like this are inevitably terminated on air by time constraints, maybe you could offer extended or exclusive long-form interviews for the Founder’s Pass members. This discussion with Mr. Ferrara is not complete and I would love to have heard more. Also, having your guests available to refute in real time the inane complaints of callers is invaluable practice for the rest of us to use in our ministry. Thank you!

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