Mandeville, LA – Exclusive Transcript – You have to have some human element here, plus all this machinery costs money. Not only is there a significant risk in liberty and civil liberties laws, but there’s a significant risk in the amount of dollars that are being lost and the amount of employees that are now permanently employed and I am now responsible for they and their children’s health insurance and dental insurance and retirement funds for as long as they ever shall live for granting them the privilege of not leaving the country when they chose or when the government chose to start these programs to spy on its own citizens. There’s just something really, really sick and twisted about that. Check out today’s transcript for the rest…
Begin Mike Church Show Transcript
Mike: I’ll talk to John in Texas first up here today. John, you’re on The Mike Church Show. How you doing?
Caller John: Good morning, Mike. Good morning, AG. How y’all doing this morning?
Caller John: I called in a couple weeks ago. I spent 20 years in the military in intelligence. When you talk about the tip of the iceberg, they’re absolutely right. I heard AG talking a lot last week about how he was amazed how shocked some of these congressmen were. He didn’t believe that they couldn’t have known about these programs because they were invited to these briefings and they didn’t go. This whole thing is smoke and mirrors, just the fundamentals of the way intelligence is handled in this country. Since Walker and the Navy gave all the classified stuff from the Navy to the Soviets about how we track their submarines, since that point on in the ‘70s, intelligence in the U.S. has been compartmentalized.
When they come in and testify in front of Congress, they may very well be testifying about a program and they may be sitting there telling the truth about that program. There may be twelve other programs, or compartments is the term they use in intelligence, that also are spying on the American public that they don’t have to admit to because it’s just a game they play. They do what they want and they tell the congressional people what they want to hear. Then the American people, they don’t tell them anything if they can get away with it.
Mike Church Show Transcript – Jerrold Nadler Confirms the NSA is Spying by Changing His Statement on NSA Spying
AG: Would you say that the heads of the intelligence committees, Dianne Feinstein and Mike Rogers, are not surprised by anything that they’ve heard from the NSA meetings because they’ve been to all of them?
Caller John: No…
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AG: The only ones that are surprised are the ones that haven’t attended them, would be my follow-up question to you.
Caller John: Absolutely not because Dianne Feinstein doesn’t have a TSSI clearance. She doesn’t have a need to know. The classified material goes unclassified for official use only, then it goes secret, top secret, top secret compartmentalized, then it goes into what are called SAPs, special access programs. First off, you have to have a top secret clearance to even get into the game. Then you have to have a need to know to spread into a compartment, then you have to sign an NDA —
Mike: John, you have to hang on. We’ll be right back. John, you were throwing out all kinds of acronyms as if Andrew and I were supposed to know what the hell you were talking about. Help us out.
Caller John: My apologies.
Mike: What were you talking about? What’s the NSC? What’s the ESC? What’s the EEAC? What are all these clearances that you say even Dianne Feinstein doesn’t have?
Caller John: The way that information in the U.S. is compartmentalized is so that no one person can give up all of the information if they were to become compromised. It’s all compartmentalized. There are different clearance levels. Even with the clearance level, you have to have the need to know. When you talk about how could Dianne Feinstein or any of these other congressmen or senators be surprised by a piece of technology or a capability, all the budgets that the three-letter agencies like the NSA or CIA operate off of are all black budgets. They’re not line-item budgets. They don’t get to see what the technology is that’s being purchased, and they’re not briefed on the specifics of capabilities. They’re briefed on a broad overview, and that’s the oversight that they’re allowed to do, and that’s the beginning of the problem.
AG: John, would you say that anything that has come out as of yet that the NSA does should be surprising? Have we found out what is the most advanced technologically, the farthest the NSA can go in terms of technologically snooping on citizens?
Caller John: When you say come out, I don’t know if you mean what’s come out in the press or what’s come out in these “briefings” where some of these senators and congressmen are saying that they’re shocked and awed or surprised. I’ll give you an example. Normally what you’re going to see is that the truth will come out in small pieces and then it’ll disappear. That’s what always happens in these cases because whomever is leaking information is cut off pretty quick. There was a story that came out two weekends ago that was dead on and should every American back on their heels yet it got no traction at all, and that was that in 2007 Microsoft began to collaborate with the NSA. The NSA had the ability to go into people’s homes through Kinect, which is a channel or video system on Xbox. The NSA was actually able to come in that way. It’s been known for a long time that the NSA can —
Mike: I have a Kinect. So they were watching me bowl?
Caller John: They’re watching whatever they want to watch and they’re listening to whatever they want to listen to, I promise you.
AG: That’s become a huge new issue with Xbox when that is released next year, the new gaming system where it has to be connected once a day to the internet. They’re going to do things like be able to monitor how much heat is in a room when you stream a movie through it so they can charge you more if you’re over a certain amount of people in the room watching a movie.
Mike: Are you serious?
Caller John: Absolutely.
AG: It’s a big thing with the new PlayStation supposedly is not going to have those same sort of requirements or ability to monitor user data that Microsoft’s new Xbox 1 will. In the gaming world at least, they’re thinking that PlayStation may surpass Xbox in what has traditionally been Xbox surpassing PlayStation for games and all that sort of thing.
Caller John: That’s a great point. You can’t help but believe that the reason for that big change in Xbox is because they’re in bed with the NSA and the system is going to have — the new Xbox 1, that Kinect camera is permanently installed. You don’t have the ability to unplug it anymore.
Mike: Screw that.
AG: I go back to the point that John was making, that the heads of the intelligence committees and the members that have gone through these meetings aren’t upset or surprised by what they are finding out. They may not know everything, it may be compartmentalized as John has described, but I look at it as false outrage or these congressmen and women being naïve that didn’t attend the meetings that are now all surprised by everything. While there may be compartmentalized technology that the NSA is capable of, the information that has been released so far, the people that attend these secret meetings aren’t surprised, whereas the ones that have chosen not to attend are. It speaks to me that there’s more political and partisan gamesmanship being played and not necessarily these politicians being truthful about what they’re really upset about, instead just looking to score political points.
Mike: I also look at the size of the entire endeavor. The more you describe, John, and the more Glenn Greenwald keeps describing, the more we learn about how large and cumbersome and expansive and spread out this is. This also requires a massive army of individuals to actually perpetrate this. You can’t do this all in an automated fashion. You have to have some human element here, plus all this machinery costs money. Not only is there a significant risk in liberty and civil liberties laws, but there’s a significant risk in the amount of dollars that are being lost and the amount of employees that are now permanently employed and I am now responsible for they and their children’s health insurance and dental insurance and retirement funds for as long as they ever shall live for granting them the privilege of not leaving the country when they chose or when the government chose to start these programs to spy on its own citizens. There’s just something really, really sick and twisted about that.
Caller John: That whole dimension of the entire issue, that’s not my area of expertise, but as a citizen, I’m outraged by the entire thing. There’s a movie that came out ten years ago with Will Smith and Jean Hackman called Enemy of the State. If you haven’t seen it, you need to see it. If you’ve seen it, you need to go back and look at it again. I’ll tell you this: the movie came out ten years ago and the technology and the capability that they portrayed in that movie, which was supposedly science fiction at the time, was out of date by at least ten years. In other words, what they showed in that movie —
Mike: What about Shia LaBeouf’s Eagle Eye?
Caller John: That movie was silly but the capabilities in that movie were not the least bit — the whole Terminator thing and the Skynet thing, I know it’s a crazy concept, but it’s not nearly as far reaching as a lot of people would believe. The NSA has a 20-acre underground supercomputer complex at Ford Meade that does nothing but crunch all this information. You were talking about the complexity of it. After 9/11, Bush authorized a whole new facility that’s been built out west of San Antonio, Texas, a satellite facility that’s another 20 or 30 acres of supercomputers. No surprise it’s just down the road from Dell Computer. These facilities do nothing but crunch ones and zeros all day long.
The concept or the belief — what this gentleman, the whistleblower, is saying, that he could do all these things and they’re not being truthful, he is spot on. Right now, this phone call that we’re having, believe me, it is being monitored. There is nothing you can do electronically in the United States that is not monitored and recorded and can be used against you if they choose to do so. This is the biggest point I want to make. The Xbox thing, coming into your home and all the rest of it, the cameras on laptops, the cameras on cell phones, they can use those any time they want to. The big fundamental change was, what the Patriot Act changed was, prior to 9/11, the NSA and the CIA could only spy outside of the continental United States by law. The Patriot Act invited them inside the continental United States and that’s what’s changed.
Mike: Thanks, DeLay. Thanks, Bush. Thanks, Rove. John, you now have my phone beeping with listeners and friends that have my cell phone number going: What the hell? John, it sounds like you’re a whistleblower, brother.
Caller John: Not really, because believe it or not, everything I’ve talked to you about is in the open press or has been at one time or another.
Mike: I don’t read enough Wired magazine. John, thanks for your extensive knowledge there. Of course now I’m probably going to be bombarded with people, [mocking] “That guy you just had on, he doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about. None of that stuff is actually happening. That’s all fantasy stuff. That’s all InfoWars stuff that he was regurgitating to you.” Like a broken clock, I suggest that InfoWars could probably be right twice a day, couldn’t it?
End Mike Church Show Transcript