Mandeville, LA – Exclusive Transcript – Let’s go to the Dude Maker Hotline and welcome frequent guest and contributor here, Joseph Pearce, back to the program, his first time since the inauguration of President Trump. That Captain Pearce has graced us with his brilliance and his work and his work ethic. And we look forward to hearing the chickens in the background. Joseph, how are you, my friend? Check out today’s transcript for the rest….
Begin Mike Church Show Transcript
Mike: Let’s go to the Dude Maker Hotline and welcome frequent guest and contributor here, Joseph Pearce, back to the program, his first time since the inauguration of President Trump. That Captain Pearce has graced us with his brilliance and his work and his work ethic. And we look forward to hearing the chickens in the background. Joseph, how are you, my friend?
Joseph Pearce: Fine. You won’t hear the chickens. It’s too darn cold. The window’s closed. Maybe next time.
Mike: What would you win to win a new car?
Pearce: I don’t see myself doing all that because, as you say, my work ethic, all that sort of stuff, Mike.
Mike: We’re banking on the fact that there’s sloth out there.
Pearce: There’s plenty of that. You’ll be in good hands.
Mike: I just have to reach the slothers, that’s all. Now, before we get into discussing some of the things that are going on today, I’m going to add this to the calendar that you can see on – if you have the Veritas Radio Network Crusade Channel app on your smartphone, if you scroll about halfway down the blocks that you can click, one of them says Events. If you open that one up, there’s a calendar. Not only can you go forward in time, but you can go backwards in time to see something you missed so you know what date it is, like I had Joseph Pearce on last time. One of the blocks on the calendar is marked for March the 11th. That is the – I guess it’s the second annual meeting at the Chesterton Society in Ponchatoula?
Pearce: It will be the third, I think, actually.
Mike: Joseph Pearce will be there speaking. Dale Ahlquist, who is a Chestertonian, also will be there. I will be there, as will David Simpson. We have a table there. If you’d like to attend the event, I have a couple of spare seats at our table. Just send me an email via private email, firstname.lastname@example.org. Joseph, this is – are you guys going to solve a mystery while we’re there?
Pearce: I’ll tell you what we are going to do. We’re going to have a great dinner of Chestertonian, rambunctious fun, because that’s the great thing about Chestertonian conferences. The Chestertonians are there. Whenever you get a group of Chestertonians together, all Heaven breaks loose.
Mike: I was listening to The Man Who Was Thursday the other day as I put together the pilot episode for radio drama. I’m thinking: This is a pretty good setup. I’m enjoying it. Then I got hit with the first Chestertonian dash of brilliance, and from there I was hooked. That was in the second chapter or so where the police detective is greeted by the incoming panel of judges or group or cabal of anarchists. The old anarchist stands up and introduces himself as president of the Organization of Anarchists.
Pearce: You can either call that a contradiction or a British epicurean [ph?] paradox, depending on your point of view.
Mike: It just is so classic of Chesterton. Then I started – somebody sent me a video and said: Mike, have you seen this video? Apparently GK made a visit to the United States and was given an award of some sorts at Holyoke College.
Pearce: Yes, he was. Actually, he was over here twice, both during prohibition, which he had great fun with. All sorts of stories about meeting priests in the rectory and reaching behind the bookcase and some books and bringing out a bottle of scotch and stuff like that. He made two trips during the prohibition era over here to give lectures, mostly at Catholic colleges, Notre Dame and various other schools. I think – I’ve forgotten it now, the one in Worcester, Massachusetts. It might be the one you’re talking about, where he got the award. So, yeah, he came over twice and was speaking in front of packed crowds. It must have been an exciting time to be over here, apart from the fact you couldn’t get the drink.
Mike: And, of course, I believe the stories about reaching behind the bookcase. One of the things he told the crowd, one of the rare instances in which Chesterton was filmed was something to the effect: I am such and such, but at least I’m not a Mohammedan. I thought: Dude, you couldn’t say that – if we invited –
Pearce: He’d be in trouble.
Mike: If we invited him over in 2017, he’d not be allowed to say that in good humor.
Pearce: I suspect he’d get away with it because he says it with such jollity and such charity. I think the trick of Chesterton is that he calls a spade a spade, but he does it always with love. That’s the great secret that we have to aspire towards.
Mike: Indeed. Joseph Pearce is my special guest on the Dude Maker Hotline, as he has been many times. Again, that’s Saturday, March the 11th here in Ponchatoula, Louisiana. I won’t have to drive very far, but Joseph will. If you’d like to come down to the GK Chesterton Saturday at the Chesterton Square in Ponchatoula, just send me an email privately and I’ll see about getting you a ticket. One other thing on that, Joseph. There’s a fantastic seafood and ale hall fifty feet away from the Chesterton statue.
Pearce: That’s where you and I are going at some point.
Mike: That’s exactly where we’re going. To the business at hand. We’re what, nine days or ten days in on the Trump presidency, on President Trump’s reign, if you will. Staying outside of the realm of policy – let’s not talk about that. Let’s talk about optics and about paradigms. Without a doubt, in the short run anyways, there has been a paradigm shift that has been visited upon the empire. The empire is not happy about it. How do you see that?
Pearce: Yeah, absolutely. I don’t think any of us could have predicted that President Trump would hit the ground running in quite the manner that he has. Obviously the decisions he’s making are completely within the rights of a sovereign nation. That’s what sovereignty is all about. So I don’t have any problem with any of those things in principle. The one thing that concerns me a little bit, and that’s someone who’s always overshadowed psychologically by George Orwell’s 1984, is that Barack Obama set in motion a sort of new style of presidency where basically the president shoots from the hip with executive orders. He did it much more than any of his predecessors. President Trump is taking him up that way. What concerns me a little bit is that we end up with basically a one-man war.
Things have been going wrong for so long over here, and Heaven knows how much we needed a radical shift of direction. I have no problem with the radical shift in direction. I have a problem with this new style of the president basically taking all the executive powers to himself.
Mike: He actually talks about that and has said of the powers that have been left or have been – I can’t remember. I just played the sound bite earlier today. He has the power to do this, the power to do that. All the while, I concur with you. You ought to then be very choosey in executing that power, and sometimes you might even say: There was an executive order issued here and I could cease the same power and do something with it. Instead, I’m going to rescind it.
Pearce: I think the problem is, the danger we have to look at is all of us can see the fact that the United States was heading headlong to hell on the path of liberalism and globalism and the whole shebang. Obviously we’re all elated that that rot seems to have been averted, at least for the moment. What we have to be careful of is in our relation to let President Trump do what he likes and find that we’ve got a Frankenstein monster at the helm who’s out of control. That’s my concern. I’m a [unintelligible]. I believe in limited government. I don’t believe in big government. Even if there are big problems, if the government gets too big, it’s not going to solve the problems in the long term.
Mike: It can’t solve the problems. That’s the thing. I was remarking about this earlier today in my Pile of Prep, which is my little rundown of stories I use to prep the show. I was remarking about this executive order that President Trump issued yesterday. It’s the one where it’s supposed to repeal all these rules and regulations. It’s a first step and this, that, and the other. I think from that perspective it’s a good order, because it’s getting rid of things, not adding something. However, in researching this just a little bit this morning and covering it, what I discovered was what one of the real serious issues and problems with all this is. You just kind of hit on it. I was able to find about half a dozen, and this is in short order. This happened within hours of the issuing of the executive order. I was able to find, in short order, half a dozen “conservative” or “libertarian” professors or otherwise upwardly mobile eggheads that aren’t government workers that have very well-informed knowledge of these regulations of that order and could provide a narrative as to whether or not its implementation would be beneficial or not. In other words, there are people out there that are being paid to study government. This is sinister, don’t you think?
Pearce: Absolutely. I think the problem is, what we’ve had in the past is a party mechanism that’s been corrupt and basically guarantees the continuation of institutionalized corruption of both the major parties. That mechanism is corrupt. What we don’t want to do is jump out of that sinking ship, if you like, into the deep blue sea by then saying: Okay. Let’s give all the power to one man and let him do it all. The problem is the system stinks. It does need addressing. Insofar as President Trump addresses real issues, we should be applauding him. Insofar as he’s basically taking more and more power to himself, irrespective of what he does with it, what he’s doing, of course is setting up a precedent that we now have a president that has the sort of powers that really old-style monarchs might have had or more recent-style dictators might have had. I think that’s the concern.
We do want a country that is genuinely free, not one that talks about freedom, because Obama could talk about freedom and give us slavery, and President Trump can talk about freedom and give us slavery. We don’t want doublethink. We don’t want newspeak. We want the real thing. That’s why we have to be always keeping our eyes open at the reality out there, and not allowing ourselves to say: Thanks be to God that the president is addressing these issues. I’m obviously very pro-life and it warms the cockles of my heart, the noises from the White House that are genuinely more than just empty echoings. We still need to see what happens in that regard. Nonetheless, we don’t want to find that we’re living in a tyranny because we’re trying to get rid of a softer tyranny and find we’ve got a harder one. It doesn’t really matter to me whether someone is on the so-called right and calls themselves Hitler or the so-called left and calls themselves Stalin. If we have a totalitarian ruler in the country, we’re slaves.
Mike: All the preceding is correct. Folks, Joseph Pearce. Among his literary works are Literary Converts, a book you can get at any of the booksellers out there, Amazon included. He is a regular contributor to The Imaginative Conservative website. We’ve gotten permission from The Imaginative Conservative to start publishing Joseph’s articles on MikeChurch.com, which we will pick up today. Joseph, the other day I saw Nigel Farage has become a Fox News contributor after he has left political office. He was asked the other day what he thought about the English version of the Supreme Court, whatever it’s called, the High Court, the Imperial Court, the Tyrant Court, whatever it’s called, Barristers in Action Court, whatever it’s called. He was asked what he thought about the idea that we’re going to send the vote to leave the European Union back to the parliament and they ultimately have to approve it. Nigel said: Look, I don’t think that parliament is going to act upon it. I think they’re going to approve. But he said: If they don’t, if they don’t, then there’s going to be a revolution in this country unlike there has been for 300 years. He’s talking about the Glorious Revolution. I said: I can ask Pearce about that, because I know he’ll know all about that. What happened 300 years ago?
Pearce: The so-called Glorious Revolution, that’s, of course, what the victors called it. It was back in 1688. Basically what happened is that the Catholic monarch, the legitimate monarch of the country was overthrown by an army of mercenaries, mostly from Holland, and was forced out of the country.
And basically a government of mercenaries put in charge a government of merchants. That’s basically what happened. And the beginning of what we might call modern English plutocracy perhaps can be traced to there, although he gets more complex and talks about Henry VIII. Certainly 1688 was the turning point. It was the foundation of the Bank of England in 1690, followed on from that with the control of the monetary system and all sorts of other things that rose out of that which led to our modern materialistic state. It was a revolution; it wasn’t a glorious one.
Mike: Some kind of constitution came out of that, but it’s never been written down. It’s an agreed-upon constitution system; correct?
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Pearce: Yeah. I actually quite like it. I know this is very alien to Americans because you have your written constitution that you swear by. The British constitution is based on tradition. In other words, it’s like a living – it’s like a tree. Laws are passed based upon precedent. The whole thing just becomes 800 years of legal precedent that forms the constitution. That’s a living, traditionalist understanding of how a constitution evolves and develops. I’m actually very happy with that as a general rule. The whole idea of the High Court over there overturning the way the government is trying to institute Brexit – listen, it may well be that that decision does have to come from parliament. I’m not interested in breaking laws in order to get what I want. The point is, of course, the will of the people has spoken. If Parliament needs to rubber stamp it to keep the High Court happy, let it rubber stamp it. Nigel Farage is completely correct, that if the government now goes against the will of the people, then we do deserve to have an uprising.
Mike: There has been – talk about going against the will of the people – you wrote the blurb for the book I republished, The English Reformation. This has a very ancient English pedigree.
Pearce: Exactly. It’s powered by elites. Elites take many shapes and sizes. They’re usually very ugly. They rule if they can. Things like referenda, which we obviously had on Brexit last year, are those rare moments when the people give the elites the kick up the backside. I do actually think Trump’s election was another example of that, where the people were actually genuinely speaking. Although, I would add to that that I think most people, many, many people weren’t voting for Trump but against the status quo in the form of the Clintons. I think this is good. I think what we are seeing throughout Europe generally is an uprising of popular discontent against the corrupt elite who have been ruling us for too long.
End Mike Church Show Transcript